For the second Paul Smith x A Rabbit’s Foot salon, Genevieve Gaunt sat down with the British actor for a conversation about punk rockers, love & being Nick Cave’s unholy protagonist. Photography by Charlie Pike.
Last week, two days before Halloween on a cold and rainy night in London, I interviewed the actor Matt Smith in a glamorous nook of Paul Smith’s Mayfair boutique. Framed by bright artwork and a plush rainbow carpet, Matt cut a cool silhouette in his black suit, his ankles lit up by the design house’s signature stripe socks.
Matt is an actor who is mesmerising on both stage and screen. A true shapeshifter, he often plays parts that rebel and transgress; crossing class boundaries and even universes. Matt has seamlessly played the Time Lord in Doctor Who (BAFTA nomination), Prince Philip in The Crown (Emmy nomination), a singing psychopath in American Psycho, the American photographer Robert Mapplethorpe, a rather dashing pimp in Edgar Wright’s Last Night in Soho, a punk rocker in Darren Aronofsky’s Caught Stealing and the white-blonde Prince Daemon Targaryen in House of the Dragon.
And now, he stars as a scene-stealing, sex addict salesman in the Sky TV adaptation of Nick Cave’s novel The Death of Bunny Munro, which airs on 20th November.
Genevieve Gaunt: Matt, before punk rockers and princes, there was football. Can you tell us about your journey into acting?
Matt Smith: As a kid it was all about football. I played for Leicester City and Nottingham Forest youth academies. I did that up until the age of about 16 and then I got a back injury. That was the end of that dream.
GG: Most people pursue acting, it seems like acting pursued you…
MS: I had a wonderful teacher called Mr. Hardingham. He cast me as Juror 10 in Twelve Angry Men. The absolute catalyst was the National Youth Theatre. It was a game-changer.
GG: Paul Smith worked with Gary Oldman on the look for Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. Is costume an important part of the process for you?
MS: Massively. It starts with what you wear on your feet, the rhythm of the costume; texture and tone. It has a huge influence on the way you stand, walk, the way you express yourself. Like, if you wear Paul Smith it feels naturally wonderful. I’m preparing for Star Wars and we’re in the process of feeling out the costume.
GG: Let’s talk about The Death of Bunny Munro…
MS: It’s about this guy, Bunny Munro and his 9-year-old son, Bunny Junior. Bunny is a pretty mad fox; he’s a sex addict, drug addict, addict of everything. Bunny’s wife dies and he’s left to look after his little boy.
GG: The cinematography of Bunny Munro is striking. Your director Isabella Eklöf talked about the influence of David Lynch and Natural Born Killers…
MS: Yeah, Isabella has a wonderful visual aesthetic which also draws on the imagery of the book by Nick Cave. All of that bleeds into the show.
GG: Bunny was a screenplay developed by Nick Cave and John Hillcoat. How did the TV show happen?
MS: Sky and Clerkenwell Films, God bless them, had the balls to tell this unholy tale. Clerkenwell Films made The End of the Fucking World and Baby Reindeer. They’re really, really smart producers. Nick’s an exec and he’s done the music for it with Warren [Ellis].
GG: Cave has a cameo in the show, is that right?
MS: [smiles] You’ll have to wait and see…
GG: You were an executive producer. What was that like?
MS: I loved it. It was nice having agency. I got a say on all of it. Casting, everything…
Matt Smith and Paul Smith. Photo credit: Darren Gerrish.
GG: You and the kid, Rafael Mathé who plays Bunny Junior have the most extraordinary relationship. What was that casting process like?
MS: Rafa, he’s brilliant. Every day I was outfoxed, outboxed, by this 9-year-old. Credit to the casting director Shaheen Baig; we saw 400 kids. When you’re doing a scene with drugs and sex and strippers and swearing you can’t reveal all of that to a kid. So on my take I’d say ‘fuck’ but on his take I have to say ‘frig’ or ‘flip’. You can’t pollute this pure, lovely little boy.
GG: The two of you together are extraordinary. So free. You must have put him at ease.
MS: I liked him and found him really interesting. He’d be like ‘Matt, let me tell you this cool thing about animals’ and then ‘Matt, for this scene, have you thought about this and that?’ and I’d be like ‘cool, I haven’t actually…’
GG: The 9-year-old gave you acting notes?
MS: Yeah! Thoughtful ideas. And all credit to his parents, because you’ve kind of got to cast the parents in these things. If you cast the little boy and his mum and dad are an absolute f*cking nightmare then you’re in trouble, but they were amazing.
GG: You play very challenging roles seamlessly. Is Bunny a particularly difficult part? Was it hard to stay in that headspace?
MS: Yeah, because Bunny is doing stuff that is appalling. You’re not endorsing… but you are representing a character when you play them. The mindset and the state of being is tough. Bunny’s inner life is chaos, so, yeah, it was difficult.
I love Paul Smith. He’s like Willy Wonka.
Matt Smith
GG: In the show you drive around a lot in this cool car. And you played a punk rocker in Caught Stealing. And you did Top Gear…you are fast.
MS: Yeah, I’m quite a fast driver actually. On Top Gear I came 7th and Tom Cruise was 8th… I beat Tom Cruise! I mean, that guy is the best, he can fly a plane!
GG: What’s the best and worst acting note you’ve ever received?
MS: I heard that Maggie Smith, if someone came to her with a bad note, she’d sort of just turn away… I find myself doing that more and more. It also depends on who’s directing. Darren Aronofsky gave me a really wonderful one at the start of Caught Stealing, he said, ‘I give you permission to be a punk every day’. So I could come in and bounce off the walls.
GG: Has an actor during a scene said or done something unexpected and unlocked something?
MS: Lindsay Duncan who plays my mother-in-law in Bunny… We first worked together years ago on That Face at The Royal Court. Lindsay gave me a great acting note, she said, ‘It’s all about the detail’. Lindsay also kind of changed my life; influenced my attitude to love. I fell in love with this girl in Brazil and Lindsay gave me this book by Carol Ann Duffy called Rapture which is about a long distance relationship.
GG: Do you write yourself?
MS: I studied drama and creative writing at UEA but I kind of left in my third year to go do Fresh Kills on stage and came back to write my dissertation. I wrote it in a week. I’ve not drunk coffee since. Writing-wise these days, I’ve started a few things and one of them is a really good idea that I’ve been cultivating.
GG: You directed Cargese by Simon Stephens for Playhouse Presents in 2013. Would you direct again?
MS: I would definitely direct again.
GG: We’ve got to talk about your spine-tingling singing voice. You sing in Bunny Munro and also in American Psycho the musical.
MS: Singing as Patrick Bateman was terrifying. I’ve never been as afraid as that. My agent Duffers [Michael Duff] was like, ‘you should do this part’ and I was like ‘no’ but he said ‘yes’. The first scene I came up on a plinth in my tighty-whiteys and sang this big number…
GG: Paul Smith tighty-whiteys?
MS: They should’ve been!
GG: Dream role? Dream director?
MS: So many dream directors. I’d love to work with Lynne Ramsay. I’d love to work with Wes Anderson… Dream part? I’d quite like to play someone from Nottingham because my mum’s from Nottingham and that’s an accent I’d like to do every day. I’d like to play Ted Hughes because I love Ted Hughes and I think I could sort of get away with him physically.
GG: There are lots of parallels between you and Sir Paul. Sportsmen whose athletic careers were derailed into the arts, Nottingham roots, the surname Smith… How did that friendship come about?
MS: I love Paul Smith. He’s like Willy Wonka. He has the most amazing energy. I would follow him into Hell and smile about it. I’d be like, ‘yeah, why not mate?’
GG: Are there any movies that you really want to be made that you are attached to that are struggling?
MS: No, no, there’s nothing I’m attached to. I’m just out there waiting for the next job…so much of it is luck and timing…
GG: Come on, you’re always in demand. You’ve just finished House of the Dragon, you start filming Star Wars in December…
MS: Sure but working is not a given in this industry… There’s a pecking order. There’s always someone above you… and below.
The Death of Bunny Munroe, starring Matt Smith
GG: Any challenges in your career?
MS: With every job you’ve got to take a little leap over the river. Every time I do a play, I go, ‘what have I let myself in for? What am I doing?’
When I was young I had quite a bad speech impediment. When I did the play Swimming with Sharks with Chrisitan Slater, my stammer was bad. I had to come on and say, in an American accent, ‘Is Stella there?’ and for like four months of this play I just couldn’t say the ‘ST’ in ‘Stella’. I called my Dad and said ‘I’m fucked, I’m going to give up’ but I didn’t. Dad wouldn’t let me.
GG: You’ve had a winning streak of exciting theatre roles. What’s been the wildest?
MS: I did Unreachable by Anthony Nielson at the Royal Court (2016) and with Anthony, there’s no playtext when you arrive at rehearsals…. You improvise it and Anthony writes it as you go. But on the first two previews we were missing the last 30 pages of the play. Just before I go on stage he brings the pages in but the scene is set by candlelight and I realise it’s too dark to read. The audience know I can’t see, I know I can’t see, and I’m like, ‘fuck!’ So I just walked to the front of the stage, and went, ‘Fuck you, Anthony, fuck your process and fuck your stupid play!’ And the audience went wild. It was one of the most electric moments I’ve had in theatre. The audience saw the mechanics of it unfurl. It never really hit that nexus again for me.
GG: How do you relax on set or backstage?
MS: You sit there and try and meditate, walk around, eat a banana, play the piano, anything to get your mind off the things you’re doing.
GG: How do you relax when you’re not working?
MS: It’s hard… wanting to be creatively quenched and not idle. But relaxing… drinking Guinness, walking my dog, Bobby, watching the football. Pretty simple stuff. I like getting into cold water. Six minutes of pure cold. Music.
GG: Favourite albums?
MS: I love The Dark Side of the Moon – Pink Floyd. My favourite Beatles album is probably Sgt. Pepper, Arcade Fire’s Funeral and Kid A by Radiohead. The song ‘What’s The Story?’ by Oasis.
GG: You mentioned the crux of acting being that inner life… you’re such a visceral actor, so free, what’s your process?
MS: The real risk isn’t just when you know the lines, but when you listen. Because sometimes it’s not even about what you’re saying, it’s about all the other shit. I don’t know, it’s a tough one isn’t it? It’s a bloody bugger. I am really clear about the inner dialogue that’s going on, and then it’s just about instinct; a leap of faith.
The Death of Bunny Munro airs on Sky and NOW, 20th November.
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